How did K-Pop transform South Korea into a global cultural powerhouse? Find out in this episode of #TheFutureOf.
From BTS to Busan's Film Festivals, how has Korea's cultural influence spread across the globe? Find out in this episode of #TheFutureOf.
What is the Korean Wave or ‘Hallyu’ [00:50]
• How the government encouraged a cultural push of Hallyu [14:14]
• Korean Cultures spread to Australia [21:23]
• How the spread of Korean culture impacts life in South Korea itself [39:23]
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• Curtin Korean Studies Major
• Korean Research Centre WA
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Associate Professor Jo Elfving-Hwang
Jo Elfving-Hwang is an Associate Professor of Korean Society and Culture in the School of Media Creative Arts and Social Inquiry (MCASI) at Curtin University. She is also Dean Global, Korea, with the Office of Deputy Vice Chancellor Global, Director of the Korea Research & Engagement Centre at Curtin University and Major Coordinator of the Korean Studies program at Curtin.
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Transcript
Behind the scenes
Host: David Karsten
Content creator: Alex Foot
Producer and Recordist: Emilia Jolakoska
Social Media: Celeste Fourie
Executive Producers: Anita Shore
First Nations Acknowledgement
Curtin University acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which Curtin Perth is located, the Whadjuk people of the Nyungar Nation, and on Curtin Kalgoorlie, the Wongutha people of the North-Eastern Goldfields; and the First Nations peoples on all Curtin locations.
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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:21
David Karsten
This is the future of where experts share their vision of the future, how their work is helping shape it for the better. I'm David Karsten. In a world increasingly interconnected by digital media and cultural exchanges, the phenomenon known as the Korean Wave or Hallyu, has taken center stage. But what propels the global fascination with Korean culture from K-Pop to cinema?
David Karsten
And how does it shape cultural perceptions worldwide? Well, today I'm joined by Associate professor of Korean Society and culture at the School of Media, Creative Arts and Social Inquiry here at Curtin University, Jo Elfving-Hwang. We explored the multifaceted dimensions of the Korean wave, its impact on global entertainment and the cultural bridges it builds across nations. Now, if you're keen to delve deeper into the intricacies of this cultural phenomenon, be sure to check out the resources in our show notes.
00:00:57:10 - 00:01:18:00
David Karsten
This is a very wide ranging question to start. I don't know. I don't know how you're going to answer this in one hour. But first of all, the Korean wave or Hallyu, is a prominent global phenomenon today. But look, it's its origins and evolution, alas, are too many. Could you take us through those early days of the Korean wave?
00:01:18:00 - 00:01:39:24
David Karsten
How did it begin and what were the key factors that contributed to the rise and the spread of Korean pop culture around the world? Yeah, well, it was a bit of a slow process to start off with. So of course, Korean culture wasn't exactly well-known to start off with. So if we go back to the ancient history of 1990, South Korea had pop culture and of course had come through.
00:01:40:00 - 00:02:12:15
Jo Elfving-Hwang
If you know anything about Korea's history, it just come through this sort of political dictatorship period from sixties to eighties, where there was a lot of censorship on what you could say. And pop culture tended to be quite calm and more focused on sort of romantic kind of trends and so forth. But from 1992 onwards, when there was this kind of democratization of Korea, that's where the government started really thinking about maybe culture could become one of those things that we could.
00:02:12:19 - 00:02:37:14
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So there was a new policy of globalization that the president, then Kim Young Sam called Segyehwa. So globalization policy. So with that, there was this idea that Korea was going to become a cinema superpower. And so they put a lot of efforts into enhancing cinema. But at this point, there was nothing to do with music, really. So you're telling me it was actually government motivated?
00:02:37:18 - 00:03:11:12
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Well, yes. And no so part of it was about democratization. And so you could suddenly in 1992, you know, there was the first election where you could, you know, the first democratically elected president, and then suddenly there was no censorship to really worry about. So a lot of artists in Korea domestically started sort of experimenting with things. And there was hip hop came big time to Korea, and there was some younger artists who started then experimenting with hip hop.
00:03:11:12 - 00:03:36:06
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And Seo Taiji and the Boys was the first band that really hit it big in 1994. And they came to this live program and they they sang this song called Nan Arayo - “I Know”. Which is about kind of teenage angst and how parents are so unfair and school is so hard and all of this stuff and all the judges on that program, they absolutely hated it.
00:03:36:06 - 00:03:59:04
Jo Elfving-Hwang
You can still watch it on YouTube if you want to look it up. And the audiences went wild and suddenly Seo Taiji and The Boys became this massive, kind of like the little Korean Beatles Mania. And that was the sort of first time when pop music became or a band became a kind, a fan phenomenon. But that was just domestic at that point.
00:03:59:04 - 00:04:19:17
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So this is early 1990s. But the thing was, it was embraced locally first and foremost, which is I guess very different to, I guess our cultural context where we tend to look outward and perhaps don't support our our local artists, perhaps to the same extent when they're starting out in South Korea. Bang, it was embraced from the outset.
00:04:19:18 - 00:04:43:08
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Yeah, well it was a youth phenomenon. So was the youth at all. Their parents were really worried about this and there were all sorts of sort of when South Asian boys became really big by 1997, when they then finally disbanded as well, they there were all sorts of conspiracy theories that there was kind of you know, there was sort of satanic influences.
00:04:43:08 - 00:05:22:23
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And you know, if you played it backwards and all this kind of thing, you could hear secret messages because why else would all these young people get so excited about this thing? But it was a really big phenomenon at that point. And then, of course, at this point, the government is really not in the picture in that, you know, there was a push to push Korean films, but auteur films, you know, sort of slow moving, amazing films that would sort of win prizes in Cannes and things like that, but not so much about blockbusters or TV series.
00:05:22:23 - 00:05:51:23
Jo Elfving-Hwang
These were very much focused on Korean domestic audiences, as were kind of mainstream music as well. Because remember, at this point, you could have maybe LPs and then cassette players and things. So you don't have social media yet at this point. So no one was really expecting there to be this big international interest in Korean music. And when I was living in Korea in 1990, no, no one would have known the people I listened to.
00:05:52:00 - 00:06:17:04
Jo Elfving-Hwang
You know, overseas. So it wasn't really a thing. You were so cool. So were very cutting edge. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But it was very cool music. And, you know, once you learn, you had to learn Korean. They were not really very many English sort of lyrics or anything. And it was only on until sort of towards the end of end of 1990.
00:06:17:05 - 00:06:58:17
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So now you look at 1996 and between 1996, 1998, you know, when you have these first bands that are then being produced and the production idea came really from Japan and it borrowed bits from America as well, you know, So the idea of having a boy band or a girl band and then producing them at this point, I know the Korean government takes quite a lot of credit for all the spread of Hallyu, and it's true that they towards as soon as it started really picking up, they did provide a lot of support in terms of tax cuts and helping out in various other ways in promoting Korean pop culture.
00:06:58:17 - 00:07:27:06
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But at the beginning it was really just few people who were quite entrepreneurial and forward looking and kind of we're looking at the domestic Korea markets and the first big band that really hit it big was called G.O.D, which of course you'd think spells God, but it's actually Groove Over Dose. So these band just hit it massive.
00:07:27:06 - 00:07:59:05
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So it became another teenage phenomenon and it's sold a lot of, I think CDs at that point. And teenagers are so good at guessing what they want. So at this point then Korea's GDP is quite high. There's a high level of employment. People have a lot of money to spend, especially teenagers. So so you have this generation now who, you know, they live in this democratic society.
00:07:59:07 - 00:08:32:11
Jo Elfving-Hwang
There isn't a lot of free time. You go to university, you got nothing to worry about. And then the Asian financial crisis hits and that becomes a big turning point in Korea's kind of entertainment industry because suddenly there's a lot of unemployment. This is this is a really big it's catastrophe. I was in Korea when it happened. And and, you know, that mass employment and unemployment and and especially for young people, you know, suddenly the rules have changed.
00:08:32:13 - 00:08:53:20
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Did the material change in terms of what the bands were writing about? You know, if they still existed? Yeah, well, they were more bands, you know, certainly because they were still selling because people wanted to escape, you know, reality. And but the CD sales, they really dropped because people had less money. But around this time and then you have other things coming up.
00:08:53:20 - 00:09:18:11
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So mobile phones, for example. So what the companies very quickly realized that you could do things like, you know, have file sharing starts becoming a thing. The problem was that you could do that illegally so can file share illegally. And at this point, it starts going overseas as well to China and other places. So this is where the kind of globalization of Korean music starts really take place.
00:09:18:11 - 00:09:50:19
Jo Elfving-Hwang
It starts sexually, quite illegally. So so so there's file sharing and that, of course, then impacts things like CD sales. But then they think, okay, maybe we can have hook ringtones, So ringtones, you could start then selling and you could download this and it's more than a couple of dollars a pop. So then you find that around this time a lot of the songs actually have what we call a hook, which could then become a ringtone as well, and you could distinguish your ringtone.
00:09:50:19 - 00:10:27:04
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So what you have increasingly appearing are these sort of consumer sort of things that you can add like that, personalize your your phone. Or would it be fair to say that that the technology was starting to influence the way music was being written? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And also, you know, things like performances, live performances, you know, people going to listen and and and fan products and then the fan movement itself becomes a little bit more organized.
00:10:27:06 - 00:11:07:16
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So now we have beats, of course, and we have Beats armies. So if we skip 20 years forward, you know, this is in the early 2000, you start getting quite organized fandoms, they self-organize and they start having quite a lot of influence also in in what becomes popular or they also start supporting the artists. So there are few cases where management companies which are producing these bands rides are they they try to, for example, sack a band member, but then the fans I was there's uproar.
00:11:07:17 - 00:11:32:05
Jo Elfving-Hwang
There's an uproar in the streets and suddenly you have this kind of it's not just the management company or the production company and the managers and the band, which is often produced band, you know, trained from an early age and in various kind of art forms and foreign languages and even how to posts and combinations are put together with complementary skill sets and, and talents.
00:11:32:05 - 00:11:55:12
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And this one, this, this kind of approach starts quite early. So in 1998 that it borrows from the Japanese system, but then it becomes a really sort of its own Korean format as time goes on. And now, of course, it's a it's it's an industry in its own right. It's it can be very problematic today.
00:11:55:14 - 00:12:16:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But in those days it was interestingly the fans that would then often stand up for the artists in those early days. And then as the file sharing and Internet starts getting faster, you know, they suddenly Hallyu or Korean Wave becomes quite big in China. And that that really is just the start, just a small market really, isn't it?
00:12:16:07 - 00:12:46:05
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Just a small market site. It really helps to capture a small market like China and China. Of course, you know, there's a lot of more Mozart of opening up. There's a lot of interest. Korean pop culture is something that is really appealing to a lot of people who might otherwise have an issue with American pop culture. Right. So yeah, it's it really appeal to Southeast Asian markets as well very quickly.
00:12:46:07 - 00:13:13:00
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And as soon as you get into that fandom movement and this is where we actually see a big uptick in in Korean pop culture and it's uptake is is sort of in Europe or Australia or UK or US in 2000. And there will be some people who know something about Korean pop culture, but it's very small and it tends to be second generation kind of Asian Australian or Asian American and what have you.
00:13:13:00 - 00:13:51:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But in in sort from sort of 1020 tens onwards, I think where you really start seeing is internet is really fast, you tube, it becomes really an important way of and the videos become more interesting and then it's just it's really appealing music. And then you have the fandoms. So Blackpink has its own fandom, you know, Bts's obviously is really has got a very famous fandom which is called Bts's Army.
00:13:51:09 - 00:14:14:22
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And so forth. The so those places then become places of belonging as well. Look, there are so many avenues we need to go down and I'm going to try and work through them. This is this is an incredible potted history of the the growth of of Hallyu globally. But the initially you said the government of South Korea was, I guess, encouraging a cultural push.
00:14:14:24 - 00:14:46:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Yeah. Did this in any way resemble, well, does this resemble what they had envisaged back in the early nineties? Does it look anything like they would have thought it could shape up as? That's hard to say because I wasn't there in the government that time. But, but I would, I would imagine that it didn't. So the idea was that Korea was going to be a bit like Italy in a way that it would showcase its its high culture.
00:14:46:09 - 00:15:11:16
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So, you know, you would you had Korea Foundation, which is a Korean, sits on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and it was sort of modeled levied after, you know, organizations like Japan Foundation, which really pushed that for things like tea ceremonies and kind of traditional culture. Right? So there is that shell casings every country wants to showcase their traditional what we call authentic, sometimes authentic cultural is something that has been around for a long time.
00:15:11:16 - 00:15:36:08
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Such a loaded word as it is. Yeah, I just sort of rolled my eyes there when I said authentic, but the idea was really that it was going to be about design, maybe food and so forth, but I don't think anyone expected this kind of K-Pop, because of course, K-Pop in itself is is a it's a quite tricky one because it's got that K dash.
00:15:36:09 - 00:16:09:03
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So you're sort of associated with Korea, but it's also it kind of takes a life of its own, so it's quite difficult to control. So for example, we can take the incident with Trump's when Donald Trump was organizing a rally, and this was around the time when there was the hashtag Black Lives Matter movement and the K-Pop fans, Bts's fans in particular at didn't like this idea of of having a Trump rally, Trump rally.
00:16:09:03 - 00:16:35:19
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So they basically took over it and they booked a lot of tickets to this rally. Remember that? That was amazing. And so this is very awkward for Korean governments because, of course, America is a big partner, an important strategic ally. So I can just imagine, of course, I wasn't there and I don't have any evidence, but I can only imagine that there were a few sweaty palms when they read about this.
00:16:35:19 - 00:17:11:23
Jo Elfving-Hwang
They know or found out that these K-Pop So okay dash us and Korean pop fans, you know, so there were some American Republican hardliners who felt that this was Korean Koreans doing something, of course, but officially it was fans who were fans of Korean culture rather than Korean people. it was a haven for conspiracy theorists. One thing that's apparent through your potted history of of Hallyu and K-Pop within that is the importance of timing and in the way that it's been able to grow and evolve.
00:17:12:00 - 00:17:45:22
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Would you agree with that, that it's been a confluence of many factors, including the, I guess, the adoption and the the development of technology in line with with that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's very serendipitous in many ways, right? So you have not only Korean domestic industries and production companies and talent, which is really high. So let's not forget that either, as you know, that the artists are actually very talented and they are from early age and they're highly trained and it's very difficult to become a K-Pop star.
00:17:45:22 - 00:18:05:11
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Right? So you have to actually be on the top at the top of your game. But then there's, of course, the issue of you have the technology to spread this and then you have the ability of create online communities. And then even COVID worked on in favor of of K-Pop movements because, you know, people are stuck at home.
00:18:05:13 - 00:18:36:04
Jo Elfving-Hwang
They are looking for something to belong to. You know, people are feel very isolated. So what we actually see that during COVID, you know, a lot of these fandoms grow and people find places of online belonging which feel very real. And then as restrictions lift, they go to see these bands live and then they have local chapters. So like for example, in Perth, you know, we have Local Beat's Army chapter, you know, because it would have one.
00:18:36:06 - 00:19:01:03
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And so I don't of course know how often they me it's and so forth. But, but there is a local and global presence which is quite exciting. So I'm really interested in in K-Pop fandoms because for a sociologist they are so interesting that you have an online virtual sites of belonging, which is very real, sometimes even more real than, I don't know your school friends, for example.
00:19:01:05 - 00:19:27:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But it's not just younger fans. It's also many people in their sixties raw seventies. There's also granny fans. So you can look online, you know, other people knitting pieces, inclusivity about it very much. And I think that's been one of the things that is also a point of pride for a lot of these fan groups that they feel that they're very diverse.
00:19:27:09 - 00:19:53:08
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So for example, in the US, many African-Americans, they feel that they feel very included and welcome to these groups. And you have, for example, in some Southeast Asian countries, you have cover bands who do sort of dance and K-Pop dancing and they have their own fandoms as well. So it's sort of you don't really need to have money to be a fan.
00:19:53:13 - 00:20:24:16
Jo Elfving-Hwang
You just need access to Internet. And then so so even things like going to, I don't know, watch them alive, I mean, that's really expensive. So say if you want to go and say, See, Betty is a Blackpink live in Melbourne. That was said to be quite a few hundred dollars, right? Yeah, but if you have a cover band who's doing just the dance moves on the streets of an an hour somewhere in Thailand or Cambodia or something, you don't really have to spend that much money.
00:20:24:18 - 00:21:00:06
Jo Elfving-Hwang
You can just enjoy it like a flashmob and, you know, do that sort of thing. So particularly that kind of K-Pop dancing as well. Yeah, it's very easy to say you don't have to do any dance training. You can just go and enjoy. So so it's it's kind of K-Pop is super interesting because it's not necessarily always about Korea or Korean culture, but it can become very localized around this idea of Korean culture, which is it may have may or may not have anything to do with actual Korean culture, Korean society and an approximation.
00:21:00:08 - 00:21:24:03
David Karsten
Exactly. Exactly. Well, look, look, a couple of years ago when I when I sat there at my my daughter's year three school song and dance recital, and I saw them singing and dancing to beats, I knew that, you know, it had gone full circle. It was here. And we were listening and watching K-Pop in the back blocks of suburban Perth.
00:21:24:03 - 00:22:09:03
Jo Elfving-Hwang
I mean, it was just demonstrated, you know, in full effect. For me. What I want to know from you is what about film? What is the current shape of Korean film? How would you describe it as a genre? What are the hallmarks? Can I go back to that point, though? Because, you know, sorry about them on that desolate place because of that that Perth, you know, having Korean pop culture playing in Perth, like I agree with you, I think it's one of the most interesting and exciting cultural phenomenon in today's pop culture because it not only is this all in Korean and then you have maybe some English thrown in in these songs, it's very
00:22:09:03 - 00:22:37:15
Jo Elfving-Hwang
catchy. And there's this whole thing about how authentic it is for kids, you know, is it just a copy of American pop culture? But we all know that pop culture is just this mishmash of, you know, you go wherever you want to go and you kind of yeah, it's whatever sort of catches the audience of whoever's listening. But it's incredible that Korea, perhaps because you don't a lot of people don't have preconceived ideas about what Korea might be like.
00:22:37:17 - 00:23:12:11
Jo Elfving-Hwang
If you're a bit older, you might think Korean War or you might think North Korea, but kind of K-Pop is imagined. This kind of it's become this imagine the kind of very neutral space that people can imagine and consume whichever way they like. And that's why it's quiet. It's it's open and it's without restriction. That's right. And it does you don't feel like you have to have some kind of like if you if you like, I don't know, Avengers or American pop culture it almost you feel like you have to somehow approve of America as a as a nation.
00:23:12:11 - 00:23:41:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Right. So so for a lot of countries like I don't know if you're in Middle East, for example, K-Pop is really safe thing to consume because it's just just Korea, Right. And Chinese, Tokyo, Chinese pop culture is really interesting. Yeah, but and Japanese too. But it's it for some it may come with with kind of a baggage. There's no subversive risk or perceived subversive risk to attaching itself to K-Pop.
00:23:41:07 - 00:24:13:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Yeah. And I think this is where Korean government has been quite clever and they've taken a huge risk as well, is that they when they then sell Korea for to tourists, they use these phrases like imagine your career. So you know, you come and you're you imagine what you want Korea to be but it's it's very vibrant and you know it's got these lively aspects to it and and you too can be part of Korea story so you feel they are included in it rather than just observing from afar.
00:24:13:08 - 00:24:46:24
Jo Elfving-Hwang
I think that's what's really made Korean pop culture. So popular is that it's so inclusive. It doesn't feel it feels safe and it's accessible to even kids in Perth. Well, Associate Professor Joe helping Hwang. Can we look at that from a South Korean perspective? Is there such thing as a how you purist, what is the view back in South Korea about how it's evolving globally and how it's being consumed?
00:24:47:01 - 00:25:21:19
Jo Elfving-Hwang
I don't think anyone does pop culture and thinks anything is pure. So I think I think it's really interesting that a lot of I've read some media commentary about K-Pop and there's been some criticism that it is just copying. It's inauthentic, it's copying American pop culture. And just like we talked earlier, you know, this whole issue of authenticity in K-Pop, I think, is it is just something that it's a non conversation, really, because all culture is inauthentic in some ways.
00:25:21:21 - 00:25:50:13
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Now, of course, there may be some people who are a little bit worried about what's happening to traditional Korean culture. You know, is traditional Korean culture going to be somehow forgotten or is it going to subsume? But what we actually find is that you have what we call kuujjuaq, you know, Cook Country and Aka's music. So you have the traditional Korean music and that's actually got a little bit of a boost out of this as well.
00:25:50:13 - 00:26:34:22
Jo Elfving-Hwang
It still needs a lot of support from governments, of course, because it's not mainstream in Korea either. Korean kids listen to K-Pop as well and Taylor Swift and all of that. But yeah, it's a traditional music. For example, it takes a lot of training, traditional pansori singing, it takes a lot of training, you know, all of these sort of outdoor theater forms like Masked Dance at the they are being supported and a lot of foreigners actually, if you go to, for example, as an exchange student, if you wanted to go to Korea, you can probably join a university club and get a little bit of a feel of what it's what it's like.
00:26:34:24 - 00:27:05:08
Jo Elfving-Hwang
There is a very strong kind of policy and legit legislation behind trying to protect what is seen as cultural heritage and particularly intangible cultural heritage. So there is probably very little worry about, you know, whether K-Pop itself is going to somehow affect the sort of intangible heritage of Korea. It's the worry is more with is very similar to Australia.
00:27:05:10 - 00:27:43:18
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Is there enough funding for the arts So you know, so so it's very similar because it's not mainstream and not everybody sits at home and listens to traditional pantori singing. So the markets are much smaller, but from a Hallyu perspective, because it seems to be so, it doesn't take a specific shape necessarily. Are you saying that back in South Korea there are no hard and fast rules that need to be adhered to to be considered part of of how you or to be considered authentic K-Pop it it the fact that it's evolving is very much accepted at home as well.
00:27:43:20 - 00:28:15:04
Jo Elfving-Hwang
yeah. Well people are very proud of the fact that K-Pop has made it big. You know, it's seen as a commercial product, but that's where you also then find that you have that so-called real musicians, you know, who do sort of, you know, underground music, Korean punk is really very it's so good and there are so many different kinds of, you know, hybrid music forms that have sort of able to using traditional Korean instruments.
00:28:15:06 - 00:28:38:13
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So like Gemini, for example, who was in Perth a couple of years back, they do this sort of post-rock where they use traditional instruments and then they use sort of heavy metal influences and rock and lights and things. So it's a very when you sit in the audience, you know, you feel it. It's a Sigur Ros of, of South Korean music.
00:28:38:15 - 00:29:04:05
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Yeah. And there's many of them so it's it's so that the non K-Pop Korean music scene is vibrant It's it's really exciting, very exciting. But it's not now. So this is I think one of my personal regrets is that a lot of people know about K-Pop and that's commercial and it's made for commercial purposes and it makes a lot of money for the GDP.
00:29:04:07 - 00:29:29:01
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But there's so much more. There's so much more. So as my as a scholar of Korean studies and also someone who teaches at university and Korean studies, my hope is always like when I teach Korean pop culture had cuts in, for example. What we want to do is we talk about K-Pop, but we also want to introduce students to these other forms of Korean pop culture, including, I don't know, film.
00:29:29:02 - 00:29:53:19
David Karsten
TV, TV series. Film. Talk to me about film. well, where are we at with with a with South Korean film, Is there a a favoring towards a certain genre that we would recognize as well? I don't know. Horror or, or rom com or faraway. Yeah. There's all sorts and it depends what what it's produced for. So Netflix has really changed the game in Korea.
00:29:53:19 - 00:30:32:01
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So say for example, so you have film and then you have TVs. There is a TV series of these kinds of soaps or comedies and so forth, and they typically have about like 16 episodes and they have a lot of cliffhangers and, and they are very easily consumable and they're super popular overseas. And then you have the Korean film, which is more so you usually don't have film directors who then do TV directing or film, you know, so directors or screenwriters, script writers who would then also do TV series.
00:30:32:01 - 00:30:57:15
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So it's like a very divided, so very solid, very siloed. But with Netflix, what's happened is Netflix has now opened up an opportunity because it's not produced by Korean broadcasting companies. They say that a lot of the films and TV series are something between. So Korean films tend to be quiet. They focus very much on the visual landscape.
00:30:57:17 - 00:31:20:19
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And so it's very much about not so much about the narrative, but is very much about how the film makes you feel. So if you watch Korean movies, you you're often left quite disturbed at the end of it. So either because there's a lot of blood or gruesome murders or something really unexpected happens, like the main character dies of spoiler far too early somehow.
00:31:21:00 - 00:31:47:10
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And so or the ending is somehow open. And this is a really traditional Korean narrative structure that you don't have clear conclusion. So Western storytelling tends to have a clear plot and a kind of hero's journey. But Korean storytelling is more, I guess, Daoist in a sense. There's got no beginning and end. It is very much about how the narrative makes you feel or the visuals make you feel.
00:31:47:16 - 00:32:10:00
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So you try to, as a as a director, you try to kind of evoke some kind response that's coming from the audiences. So as such, it doesn't make it very easily consumable. So you don't you never go and see Korea movie and think, this is going to be fun and easy to watch. You're kind of going there thinking, how am I going to be challenged this time?
00:32:10:00 - 00:32:45:01
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So if you want to have the fun and sort of, this was a hard day, I need some light entertainment, just any TV drama, go for it, knock yourself out and you probably feel uplifted because everyone lives. What did the success of Parasite mean to the film industry that was so important? And so for Korean government especially, that kind of international recognition has been very important and you know, when your divided country, you know, you have north and south.
00:32:45:03 - 00:33:06:18
Jo Elfving-Hwang
It's not just about legitimacy of which Korea is more legitimate, right? It's also about like Korea was so poor in 1950s, it was completely destroyed by the war. It was seen as the basket case of all countries in the world. It was one of the poorest countries in the world. And it was people were, you know, really super poor.
00:33:06:18 - 00:33:54:05
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And now it's only 70 something is 81, is it now? It's like time is right. 70 something is a 75 years later. And now we have, you know, one of the leading economies, Australia's top three trading partner that is leading the way in innovating cultural. You know, global cultural sort of innovations in film, you know, thinking about. So a lot of the Korean film directors, for example, of course, they get a lot of influences from from the sort of film theories and, and famous directors like Hitchcock and so forth in the West, if you like, but also in Japan and China and other places.
00:33:54:07 - 00:34:24:11
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But, but they are also always experimenting because it's, it's, they have developed their own style. So when you watch. Yeah, yeah that's right. The language, visual language is very but it is very kind and no and it is very often quite dark. Yeah. And, and if it's comedy it's very Korean comedy so it doesn't it, you have to kind of understand Korean sense of humor to get the comedy.
00:34:24:13 - 00:35:00:01
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So for example, my brother is a cinematographer and he doesn't understand Korean comedy at all. He doesn't find it funny. I find it hilarious. You've had the benefit of many years. Yeah. Yeah, I speak Korean, so, you know, it's I find it absolutely hilarious. You hinted at not in fact, you stated quite unequivocally that that it's been economically such an important boon for the ongoing success and and revitalization of South Korea's economy over the last 70 or so years.
00:35:00:03 - 00:35:26:18
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And we tend to, in the mainstream, look at South Korea as a great exporter of of electronic consumer goods and and cars. But in terms of its culture, how will you what is the I guess, the dollar value? Is it comparable to those other exports now? Pretty much. I mean, you can even look at, I should really look it up.
00:35:26:18 - 00:35:53:03
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But the dollar value of just beats is is immense, you know, So you are talking a significant chunk of Korea's GDP. And to be honest, I don't really check what that these last two years fingers wear. So I'd have to go on and have a look at them. But we can safely say that it's it is a significant enough chunk of Korea's GDP.
00:35:53:05 - 00:36:20:13
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Of course, it brings in a lot of things like tourism and that's a very important thing. But it's also things like selling cultural sort of products and different formats, TV formats. Koreans are really good at coming up with TV formats that then they sell on to hard to get markets like China and also co-producing a lot of international collaborations and things like that.
00:36:20:19 - 00:36:59:13
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So so, you know, you see bands like Coldplay, for example, doing a collaboration with Beats. I mean that immediately. It's not just Coldplay that that sells us of that. It's beats us as well. So all of that is is income to to Korea's, you know, gross national product if you like. So it Korea does have its own appointments, if not ministry, but it has its own office that looks after Korean pop culture and it's a ministerial appointment so it's a high level appointment.
00:36:59:13 - 00:37:34:06
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So that's how seriously Korean government takes this industry. They they really have the producers corner. I imagine that everybody in that office looks amazing. I think misconception I like that fed but if you are a minister you have to look ministerial and not like a K-Pop star. Otherwise no one's going to take you seriously. It's pushed the boundaries of how do you how does government what role does government play in supporting the arts?
00:37:34:08 - 00:37:58:09
Jo Elfving-Hwang
It's Korea itself has got still obviously lots to do with supporting traditional arts. They do heavily, but I think it does. I mean, I wish actually that Australian gun would sort of look a bit more at what what the film industry has done in Korea, for example, is that you're either all in all that kind of thing these days.
00:37:58:11 - 00:38:27:12
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And also I just I think what's really exciting about Korean, say, film industry is that they're very brave and they kind of they they don't really care about. I mean, everyone wants to win prizes, but they still do their own thing. And then so you create quite unique, exciting spectacles in that way. But if you're really then make is a TV series again totally different than a commercial product?
00:38:27:14 - 00:39:02:18
Jo Elfving-Hwang
You want to appease the audiences. So maybe that's part of it is that they have such clear two sides of the entertainment industry. And then there's the Netflix, which is kind of a place where everything meets. Yes, Yes. The great global viewing marketplace. So to drive look, I don't know if this is in your wheelhouse, but I want to look at the effect of of Hallyu and K-Pop within this, the South Korean idiom, and particularly what is it like growing up in South Korea now?
00:39:02:20 - 00:39:25:15
Jo Elfving-Hwang
When I was in South Korea in the late 2000, there were a couple of things that that really stood out to me at the time, and that was the emphasis on technology and how important a part that that played already back then, that the the access to high speed public Internet was phenomenal. It was it was faster already then than what I'm receiving at home from my Internet service provider in 2023.
00:39:25:16 - 00:39:55:17
Jo Elfving-Hwang
It wasn't quite as incredible, but government funded initiatives like starting cities from scratch, like Incheon, and it's, you know, the ability to sort of look forward and and concentrate on the future for the next generation was very much a part of being South Korean. The other thing I noticed at the time, yeah, was the that was the first place I'd seen selfie sticks become such a massive thing.
00:39:55:17 - 00:40:18:02
Jo Elfving-Hwang
That was a good couple of years before it became a thing in Australia. Yeah. And, and so everybody we saw for the first time the notion of inserting yourself into, into the backdrop and making your experience of the place that you were at, making sure that everybody knows that you're part of that experience and that you were there and that you were having a good time.
00:40:18:04 - 00:40:46:06
Jo Elfving-Hwang
I is era. I guess what I what I'm trying to ask, is there a an inordinate pressure since then that that K-Pop and Hallyu has brought about in terms of being young in South Korea? Do you have to be a certain way because of, I guess, how pervasive this culture has become within South Korea, not just globally? Yeah, I, I think that overlaps a little bit with beauty cultures.
00:40:46:06 - 00:41:21:15
Jo Elfving-Hwang
I guess. But on the other hand, you know, you a K-Pop style itself is is again, a style that is produced for the stage. So even though you have K-Pop stars who look amazing and they have dyed hair and, you know, they probably have surgery in many cases and so forth, that is the K-Pop esthetic. So if you're I don't know, a guy in, you know, who's in their fifties working in a company, it's those kinds of esthetics are really irrelevant unto you.
00:41:21:15 - 00:41:54:01
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But for younger people, of course, just like in Australia, a world is much more visual these days and it's perhaps more to do with selfies, and it's more to do with the appearing culture online. You know, just what you were talking about. There's, you know, you have to be seen to be doing things in order to almost exist or, you know, if you if you didn't take a selfie and posted on Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever, then it didn't happen.
00:41:54:03 - 00:42:22:17
Jo Elfving-Hwang
there's no evidence that you've been in this amazing place. So with that, you of course then have to be, you have to look selfie ready or you have to use, for example, Korean. I think Korean Samsung phones were some of the first ones that introduced a a kind of beauty filter. Yeah. So, you know, you quite often see people posting selfies and you can see that there's a beauty filter that's been used.
00:42:22:17 - 00:42:49:19
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And just just the thing so it can be quite panoptic, if you like, can be quite hard for particularly young people to live in that kind of hyper visual. So if you have any kind of issue with your face, for example, or your appearance, it it, it can be quite difficult not to do anything about it. But that doesn't mean that everybody does.
00:42:49:21 - 00:43:21:22
Jo Elfving-Hwang
And there there is a kind of anti appearances movement as well, where people, women in particular refuse to use makeup. But then there's also a strong focus on on playing the part. So Erving Goffman, who's a famous sociologist, talks about on stage and backstage and Korean culture, is very there are quite clearly defined sort of roles on, you know, how to be part of the in-group.
00:43:21:22 - 00:43:45:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So, for example, if you work in a Samsung company, there's a Samsung way of wearing clothes, right? Even companies have got their own sort of a dress code. So if you're a young guy working for Samsung, you're probably expected to also ensure that you go to the gym and look fit because Samsung Chic. Yeah. Yeah. Well, pretty much.
00:43:45:12 - 00:44:05:23
Jo Elfving-Hwang
But then again, if you're a professor working at Seoul National University, you know, you don't want to look completely haggard, but you don't want to look like a K-Pop star that goes, you know, no one takes it seriously. So so it just depends on the context. So if you're in a public facing job, I don't know, work in a cafe, then for sure.
00:44:05:23 - 00:44:38:14
Jo Elfving-Hwang
You know, you have to look after yourself. But it's also part of it is that Korean skincare are really amazing. They are cheap. So it's the access also to services that make your look glowing. Are much cheaper, I can attest. Yeah. So some things that are very expensive, say in Australia because people don't really engage with those practices and opportunities to enhance your appearance are much cheaper and more available in Korea.
00:44:38:14 - 00:45:06:17
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So personally I would say why not? You know, as long as it doesn't become obviously an issue, I look for a cultural difference. there's a firm 92 year old. You look fantastic. Oh thanks so much. Associate Professor Jo Elfving-Hwang as an expert in Korean studies, and this is to round us up, what do you see in the future for Hallyu and K-Pop in particular?
00:45:06:23 - 00:45:37:03
David Karsten
Do you see it taking shape in a certain way? What are you noticing now? So I think it's going to evolve. One of the things that I love about Korean culture, whether it's pop culture or whether it's Korean heritage art, is that it always surprises you. So what form it will take there is not knowing, but there is so much focus on promoting and supporting creativity.
00:45:37:05 - 00:46:07:19
Jo Elfving-Hwang
Creative industries in Korea, you know, there is a really, you know, that Korea ranks really high in maths and literacy also pays a lot of attention in education, which is quite harsh education sometimes, and heavy education. But there's a heavy emphasis also on creativity. And so a lot of Korean young people choose to go self self employed as well, and they look for opportunities in that area.
00:46:07:19 - 00:46:43:18
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So creative arts is something that in particular in in these kinds of digital arts is a is a really growing industry. So I would just say watch this space. I don't think Hallyu or Korean Wave or Korean pop culture is going anywhere now that it's become known and people seek it out regardless of age, you know? So there are a lot of people who stumble across Korean pop culture in their forties, fifties, sixties, get hooked, and then they look for more.
00:46:43:20 - 00:47:18:07
Jo Elfving-Hwang
So one of the warnings I guess I need to leave with the listeners is that watch out for Korean TV series. Once you start watching them you get hooked and say might happen with K-Pop if you get involved in fandoms and things, you might get hooked regardless of your age or gender orientation. But yeah, I'm excited for Korea's pop culture going forward because what's coming around the corner, no one knows, but I'm sure it'll be exciting.
00:47:18:09 - 00:47:39:07
David Karsten
Its an endlessly fertile pasture for you to keep, I guess, examining and studying and talking to us about well into the future. Associate Professor Elfving-Hwang, thank you so much for spending some time with us today and opening up a world for a lot of us in and an insight into Hallyu and K-Pop. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
00:47:39:07 - 00:48:00:18
Jo Elfving-Hwang
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