Technology and devices, and their daily influx of images and messages, may be changing the way our brains work and altering our ability to focus on set tasks.
Our growing reliance on mobile phones, the internet and social media may be changing how our brains work and altering our ability to focus. Early research expresses concern about the impacts of screen use on our concentration and mental health, and particularly on young children. However, newer research finds that many of the early conclusions regarding the negative effects of screen time and social media may have been overstated.
In this episode, Sarah is joined by Dr Patrick Clarke and Ms Tamsin Mahalingham.
Dr Clarke is a lecturer, clinical psychologist and researcher in psychology. His research considers whether our interactions with our devices influence our patterns of emotion, for better and for worse.
Ms Mahalingham is a PhD student at Curtin, where she has been examining the impact of social media use on mental health outcomes.
They discuss, how cognitive processes are changing in response to technology, the connections between inner tension and health, and how future technologies could impact brain function.
What attention control is and how it is measured [1:11]
In what ways is the digital world changing our attention span and shaping our cognitive abilities [4:58]
The connection between distractability, social media and mental health. [6:17]
How we can rebuild our attention spans – or retrain our brains to help us focus without distraction [15:07]
How our brains will adapt to the intense, digital demands of the future, such as VR and the Internet of Everything [19:13]
Patrick and Tamsin’s upcoming research plans [24:33]
Attention control moderates the relationship between social media use and psychological distress
Screentime associated with inattention in pre-schoolers
Dr Patrick Clarke
Senior Lecturer, Curtin School of Population Health
Dr Clarke is a lecturer, clinical psychologist and researcher in psychology. His research interests include understanding the cognitive and neural processes that underlie emotional vulnerability and resilience. His recent research also considers how interactions between patterns of cognition, such as attention, and our devices may influence patterns of emotion for better and for worse.
Google Scholar
https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=qJmehJwAAAAJ
@DrPatClarke
Ms Tamsin Mahalingham
Provisional Psychologist, Professional Masters and PhD Psychology student, Curtin School of Population Health
Ms Mahalingham is a PhD student at Curtin, where she has been examining the impact of social media use on mental health outcomes. She has found that people who get distracted easily are more prone to experience negative psychological effects (anxiety and depression) from high levels of social media use. She is also a volunteer with YouthFocus WA.
Tamsin.Mahalingham@curtin.edu.au
@TMahalingham
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Sarah Taillier (00:00):
This is The Future Of where experts share their vision of the future and how their work is helping shape it for the better.
(00:10):
I'm Sarah Taillier. Our growing reliance on mobile phones, the internet, and social media may be changing how our brains work and altering our ability to focus. Early research express concern about the impacts of screen use on concentration and mental health, particularly in children. However, newer research finds that many of the early conclusions regarding the negative effects of screen time and social media may have been overstated.
(00:40):
In this episode, I was joined by two researchers from Curtin School of Population Health, Dr. Patrick Clark and Tamsin Mahalingham. We chatted about how cognitive processes are changing in response to technology, the connections between inner tension and health, and how future technologies could impact brain function. If you'd like to find out more about this research, you can visit the links provided in the show notes.
(01:05):
Patrick, can you explain what attention control is and how it's actually measured?
Dr Patrick Clarke (01:11):
Yeah, so it's a bit of a big umbrella term and there's a few processes that we kind of readily recognise in there. So there's sort of... and bits you'll probably be able to relate to quite readily to. So there's a really big one that's important and it comes back to this idea that I guess is becoming more prominent, this idea of free won't rather than free will. So this idea that so much of what we actually do is just inhibiting the vast array of other things that are going on in the world at a given point in time because when we're attending to one thing at the moment, listening to a voice or anything else, there is so much stimuli hitting us, the clothes on our body, the sounds elsewhere. So we're inhibiting all the rest of that to focus on a really, really small slice of what's going on. So when we get a break in that, you hear your voice heard or something, that's a sort of lapse in the inhibition because it's reached a threshold. You have to direct your attention somewhere else to grab something. So that's just one part, inhibition.
(02:10):
There's also switching, so being able to switch between different tasks or different things that we kind of look at in the environment as well. So switching between verbal and audiovisual tasks is one thing. You can juggle and speak at the same time, but doing two tasks that are quite heavy on verbal linguistic skills. You know how we... counting days of the week as you go Monday, Tuesday. So you can't do those two tasks quite as easily at the same time.
(02:43):
And then the other third kind of major class of it is this idea of, well, they call it updating, but it's generally holding stuff in mind at a given point in time because at any given time, we're formulating what we're doing next. We're thinking about the context we are in, and we might be, if we're figuring something out, we're holding the nature of a problem in the mind. We're adding new information into it. We're manipulating those things. So this is kind of things that relate to working memory, but general updating systems.
(03:12):
So yeah, there's other slightly different conceptualizations, but those sort of three things of inhibition and inhibitory control. Switching and updating processes are generally regarded as the three big classes of attention control.
Sarah Taillier (03:27):
And obviously, those different ways that our brain is working and capturing, holding and retaining or not are... well, it's not so obvious, actually, at the moment how they may or may not be changing. In what ways could the digital world be changing? Attention spans, control holding, that type of thing.
Dr Patrick Clarke (03:50):
Look, in principle, in a lot of different ways, and I guess that's been some of the work that we've been looking at a little bit recently. But one of the things about brains, and I remember in one of my earlier employments, there was someone who does a lot of work in the neural space and them commenting on one of the amazing things is that anything stays constant in the brain because there's so much going on. We used to think of brains being very static and set, but the amount of plasticity and adaptability of process in the brain is absolutely huge.
(04:22):
So we know brains change very constantly and they change with the tasks that we give them. So the more we practise certain sorts of skills or anything else, our brains will adapt to those things, which is why when we're thinking about what tasks we're giving our brains repeatedly in terms of what we're serving up and perhaps via digital media and the like, it's really interesting to be thinking about how that could be training certain sort of neural habits and patterns that might have [inaudible 00:04:49] effects through other areas of life as well.
Sarah Taillier (04:51):
How long do you think that that change has been underway? Since ever, or it's not since smartphones just kind of hit our [inaudible 00:04:58].
Dr Patrick Clarke (04:58):
Well, it's interesting. I mean, probably yes, forever. And I mean, coming back to this idea of human beings running this modern 21st century software on what's essentially Stone Age hardware. We haven't updated our neural systems fundamentally since we stood upright and started walking across the world from Africa. So yeah, human beings have this remarkable adaptability in our neural capacities and that has been going on forever over time.
(05:26):
And I think it's a really interesting balance between being legitimately concerned about some of the pressures we're placing on ourselves or some of the habits that we're creating, but also reminding ourselves that every time a new technology has come along, people have predicted that this is going to be the youth of today about to experience their most tremendous and awful downfall because of television or radio or whatever else it was that sort of came along at the time. So I think it's important to be kind of concerned and aware of some of those things, but also to temper that with healthy scepticism as well.
Sarah Taillier (06:03):
Well, let's come back round to that, but in the meantime, Tamsin, you've done extensive research in distractability, social media, and mental health. What connections has your research uncovered?
Tamsin Mahalingham (06:17):
So what we found is that people with of poorer attention control, so who sort of struggle to sustain their attention over a period of time on a focused task tend to have a stronger relationship with the amount of social media they use and also, psychological distress. So that's things like depression and anxiety, just sort of if we think of mental wellbeing, it's sort of mental ill health. And so we find in people who have poor attention control are probably more distractable. When they use more social media, they tend to show higher levels of psychological distress, whereas people who are better at directing their attention, focusing their attention don't show that same strong relationship. So they might use the same amount of social media, but they might not have that same level of psychological distress.
Sarah Taillier (07:19):
Right. Can you just tell us as well how... tell us about the study. Who was involved and how did it actually work?
Tamsin Mahalingham (07:26):
Yeah, so this sort of initial study with attention control and psychological distress was done in 2020, so around COVID, and it was at Curtin with mostly undergraduate students as participants. And basically, what we got them to do is they came in, we checked how much social media they had used the week before, and then they did a test for depression, anxiety, psychological distress and then they did an attention control task. So that's a computer-based task where sort of tests how good you are at directing your attention. And then what we did is for half of them, they just kept using social media as they usually would. And then the other half, we got them to stop using social media for a week. And then what we did is we brought them all back a week later and then they did all the same things again. And what we found is in that initial session at baseline, that finding with the attention control and social media.
Sarah Taillier (08:38):
So what does that tell you about how we can minimise those psychological risks? Is it matter of just no social media if you are struggling in that area or reduce it? What's the best approach there?
Tamsin Mahalingham (08:49):
I think it's not so much about how much social media you're using. So it's not all social media is bad. It's more about looking at how we're using it, the types of use, how aware of the social media we're engaging with. So more focused social media use where I'm going on Facebook to check in on my friends and I'll spend five minutes is probably good, whereas opposed to like, "Oh, I'll spend five minutes on TikTok" and then it's two hours and you've been scrolling. It's probably less good.
Sarah Taillier (09:21):
So are there some practical ways... I'm sorry, question without notice that you can do that because I know sometimes, I'll have the intention of going, "I'm going to spend five minutes just scrolling through my feed" and then 45 minutes later, I'm going, "Oh my God, how did that happen? I just went down this complete rabbit hole."
Tamsin Mahalingham (09:37):
Which is pretty common, especially because of how the algorithms are designed. They want you to stay on the apps and the platforms. And what another recent finding we've had is people are really bad at guessing how much social media they use. So they really struggle to estimate that. There are tools built into your phone and stuff so iPhones and I think all Android phones are having that built into settings as Wellbeing or Screen Time? And what you can do is you can actually objectively check how much you've used and you can also put in screen time limits for your app. So if you're like, "I don't want to use more than two hours of Facebook a day," you can put a limit in. But even just sort of checking at the end of the day and being more aware of how much you are consuming will help with your judgement of how much you've used each day.
Sarah Taillier (10:29):
Oh, it's a word that gets bandied around a lot, but consciously kind of approaching it, really, because I know that I've only... I can pick up my phone in the morning, jump straight onto social media, and go, "Whoa, whoa, there's 15 minutes right there." I've kicked... and then I'm beating myself up because I'm like, "You've started off the day on social media." So really, actually taking a pause before you fall into those routines.
Tamsin Mahalingham (10:50):
Yeah. Less of just checking as a habit and more of what is my goal with this?
Dr Patrick Clarke (10:57):
And I guess in that same way, that idea of having a goal and coming back to it, it's not all bad. And I think some of the things that we've been a bit interested with now and perhaps looking into further in future research is the idea that social media's not a single thing, necessarily. And as we've sort of alluded to is this world of difference between engaging with friends in a bit of banter on different platforms and exchanging memes or watching hilarious animal videos and doom scrolling all the horrific things that are happening in the world for ages on Twitter or another platform. So you can get these huge levels of variance in how social media is used, and you can obviously see from those stark examples how that could be shaped.
(11:42):
And I guess the flip side of that as well, sort of, so what patterns of use might be problematic, but also for who? So some people might be very resilient to being exposed to certain types of content, but then young adolescents who are very sensitive about their bodies, following lots of Instagram influences can have potentially negative effects with those things as well. So both that sort of who might be vulnerable, and I guess that's what we focused a bit on with the research in relation to attention and the like, but also what patterns of use might be particularly problematic too.
Sarah Taillier (12:17):
I'd love to know a little... maybe this is an overly personal question, but how do you both manage your social media use?
Tamsin Mahalingham (12:25):
So it's a bit of... I feel like I'm on track and a bit of do as I say and not as I do. So I've had to sort actively go and go, "Look, I'm not going to download TikTok," but I didn't have Facebook until after I finished high school, so I don't have that real habitual connection with Facebook. But the one that really gets me is Instagram. And so everything else, I'm really good about. And Instagram, sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I've spent my 45 minutes for today. Maybe I'll spend another 45."
Sarah Taillier (13:01):
That's deeply reassuring. What about you, Patrick?
Dr Patrick Clarke (13:06):
Yeah, look, I guess in the same way, I've managed to stay off some platforms just by not taking that step, although there is occasional things where I'll actually look at my wife's feed and something just to see how that's going. But no, look, I think in particular, I guess I'm a bit aware of a lot of that short form video content. Facebook's putting up Facebook Shorts and [inaudible 00:13:31] Reels and then there's YouTube Shorts. I haven't got TikTok, but because that is exclusively that medium already through those other platforms, it's really, really [inaudible 00:13:41], and I feel like that analogy of you've got the huge bowl of tasty treats in there, but they're really, really small and you're only just having one more the whole time and before you know it, you've eaten half the bowl.
(13:53):
So in the same way, I think there is that tendency for people to, perhaps, lose track of time a little bit more when engaging because each one's only really, really small and you can just flick through it. So I think I'm cautious about how that could be shaping attention a little bit sometimes, which is why I try to stay away from it. And I'm usually pretty strict by kids about that too. Yeah.
Sarah Taillier (14:15):
Did it come through in the research at all, Tamsin, that there a generational difference between impact in this space?
Tamsin Mahalingham (14:23):
We haven't found one yet based on the stuff that we've run, but even looking at some of the apps, you can see some people who have TikTok will either have really, really high TikTok use or some people only have the tiniest bit, a few minutes in a week. And so it's really interesting to sort start seeing patterns of, "Oh, TikTok is always quite high or Instagram is always quite high," and those sort of patterns start coming out.
Sarah Taillier (14:54):
And Patrick, while we're talking about the impact that this use is having and how we can manage it, are we able to rebuild our attention spans or our attention control?
Dr Patrick Clarke (15:07):
Oh, yeah. Look, there's a lot of things people can do in their daily lives and it's really interesting to reflect on the things that we, in some ways, have gotten better at as well because I mean, you've probably had that experience yourself of being able to handle a lot of complexity and switching between multiple demands and tasks at a given point in time. And we've gotten quite good at essentially switching from one thing to another thing to another thing. What we're perhaps less good at is retaining focus for a long period of time on a single task that might be a bit arduous and a bit harder work without going, "Oh, there's this other little thing that I need to get to." And there are... I mean, again, it's about kind of that brain training and obviously, there are techniques that people use and particularly with mindful focus type tasks and the like that when people practise those things really, really regularly, there is evidence that you can increase that sustained focus.
(15:57):
I guess the kind of potential interest and concern and again, it's really early days for some of these things because some of these platforms, while they're talked about in ways, we talk about them a lot, they're really, really new. It's only a year or two old and much of the research takes at least a year or more before it's actually coming out. So a lot of what we don't know about, but I guess the concern is that any kind of brain training we might be doing ourselves to be more focused has to potentially combat this training we're doing incidentally on our devices that's telling us to, "No, only pay attention for really short durations" and give us really small hits of positive brain [inaudible 00:16:37] in some ways as well, so yeah.
Sarah Taillier (16:40):
While there are so many unknowns floating around, are there any kind of standard, go-to brain training approaches, techniques, programmes that you would recommend?
Dr Patrick Clarke (16:51):
Oh, look, there are, I mean, a lot of good organisations that are releasing mindfulness-based apps now for free and they have really, really good programmes and I think for some people in some situations, it isn't always something that is necessarily helpful. There's evidence that people have experienced trauma and don't find it particularly useful, but just in terms of every day regular pattern, providing your brain with a bit of latent downtime in which you can actually have that bit of regular focus is not a bad thing to be doing at all. And I guess, I mean we also just talked about just generally good habits, the whole just going to watch a couple little videos while I'm brushing my teeth or something, which kind of means that the amount of sleep you're getting can be pushed out in these sorts of things as well. So just observing good habits with the types of device usage that you're engaging in as well.
Sarah Taillier (17:45):
I can see you nodding away, Tamsin. Is there any other techniques that you use that help?
Tamsin Mahalingham (17:51):
I think, well, I don't always use this, but especially another thing that's coming out in the research is multi-screening. So not just going from one thing on an app to another, but looking at Facebook or watching a YouTube video or having Instagram open on your phone and then Facebook open on your computer. So your brain is splitting its attention between two things and there's not a lot of research on that in the social media space. But if you're doing that a lot, logically, it doesn't make sense that it's necessarily the most healthy thing for your brain to be able to focus on one task or sustain attention. So even just in a day, just try and do one activity at a time can be really helpful.
Dr Patrick Clarke (18:37):
And I think on that, too, just that being present. So I think when we talk about mindful tasks, we think about setting time aside just to focus on our breathing and all these other things, but just practising being very present when we're doing single tasks. And like you say, the idea that we can be watching a show on Netflix and then we're in a spot that's a bit boring, so we start scrolling on our phones and all of a sudden, our attention's divided again. So even just fairly menial tasks, if we can kind of just retain focus on that in a bit of a present and mindful way, those things can kind of combat that divided split attention habits a bit too.
Sarah Taillier (19:13):
I'm going to throw this out to either/or of you. How do you see our brains, with all that in mind, adapting to the intense digital demands in the future like VR and the Internet of Everything. What do you think about movement that could happen in that space?
Dr Patrick Clarke (19:34):
It's interesting. I mean, I guess we're yet to see from Zuck what exactly the Internet of Everything might actually look like. But in some ways, from little experiences I've had with VR, it's incredibly immersive and to the extent that those environments will be able to draw people in a large way. Obviously, that comes with its risks, but also could be hugely entertaining, an interesting way to connect. There's, I guess, a few examples of things recently where over COVID, when conferences and the like were completely shut down internationally and everything migrated to online, it felt like a not entirely replicated experience when you're meeting with people face to face online. But to the extent that something like that could be replicated in a more realistic virtual environment, then all of a sudden, we're reducing our emissions by not flying to far away places and the like. So you could see some really substantial potential advantages with some of those things.
(20:37):
But, yeah, in terms of, I guess, how our brains will adapt to some of them, it's really [inaudible 00:20:43]. We're still so early along this process. We kind of know many of the fundamentals that can help us to create good habits in the long-term. To the extent that we can use some of those online environments to help encourage those things, that could be very good. But we are, while we often know what's good to us, we are often quite at the whims of what we like as well, even though we know that they're not fantastic. So to the extent that we can be seduced by some of those things, it might be a bit risky sometimes too.
Tamsin Mahalingham (21:15):
Yeah, and I think also in the VR space, while there's a lot of unknowns, there's some research coming out about therapy via VR being really effective in some circumstances. So in the ways that it could be used for good. People in remote communities might have access to support that they might not otherwise have. That can be really beneficial. But I guess only thinking about social media and the capitalization of the internet and things like that, we're kind of at the mercy of companies and what's going to make them money as opposed to what might be the most wellbeing-focused ways of using these sort of resources?
Dr Patrick Clarke (21:58):
And I guess that's the really interesting point. When we talk about the algorithms and the way in which they're designed, they're designed to maximise engagement and that's where you saw some of the controversy about how Facebook is almost spinning hatred into cash in some ways by feeding people selectively content that might actually get them very angry and irate because it promotes greater engagement. And obviously, algorithms could, in principle, be designed to make people feel very good about themselves, but that might not then make them use those products as much so that the incentive isn't necessarily there for large corporations to do that, which is why, I guess, there is that potential role for kind of regulation with these things. And obviously, it's really hard for governments to keep up, given how fast that space moves.
Tamsin Mahalingham (22:47):
And especially with things like parasocial relationships. Companies making Twitter accounts where they're acting like people and you're engaging with them and you're seeing the thing with Twitter and how it was bought out and then you could buy verification and then people were sort of making fake company accounts and then the companies were getting in trouble because people were like, "Oh, why is this company so dodgy?" Things like that are still quite new, and we haven't really figured out how to navigate them yet.
Sarah Taillier (23:18):
What's interesting... to bring out the crystal ball for a minute. We're going to pause for a quick ad break. We'll be back right after this ad.
(23:30):
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(24:08):
And we're back. Okay, we learned a bit about attention spans and some of the connections between attention control and mental health and what may be evolving in this space in the future. I'd love to learn a little bit more about both of you. Patrick, can you tell me about your research journey so far and your plans for some of the upcoming projects?
Dr Patrick Clarke (24:33):
Yeah, sure. So I guess the way that I've kind of worked my way to a bit of a focus on social media has been part of my research programme has been through the focus of my PhD and quite a bit of my other early work has been on the kind of patterns of cognition thinking, but also the way in which people process their environment. So you might have had that experience of certain sights or sounds capturing your attention more readily in the environment. I always think a classic example is when you're thinking... or you've just bought a new car or something like that. All of a sudden, you see that car everywhere. So sometimes, certain things become more salient to us as a result of experiences and that can be the case also with emotional problems as well. So when people are having difficulty, say, with anxiety or depression, sometimes more negative content tends to leap out of the background at them a bit as well.
(25:30):
So a lot of my past research was looking at how the way in which people attend or interpret information in their environment might shape their emotional experience a bit. And that kind of dubs how, though, I did my clinical training in psychology and worked quite a bit with youth mental health as well and then sort of came back into the teaching and research area again a bit from there. But it didn't feel like a huge leap from thinking about the way in which our brains might be shaped by our environment and the cognitive processes to then thinking about, "Well, we're seeing a lot of our world these days through digital content here" and so the way in which people might be interacting with our devices could be a pretty powerful force in shaping how we feel about the world and these sorts of things as well. So I guess that is sort of how I've come to being a bit interested in people's interactions with social media and their devices more broadly.
Sarah Taillier (26:29):
And Tamsin, I understand you are undertaking a research project exploring the effects of social media on the mental health of the LGBTQIA+ people. Can you tell us more about this project and how people can actually get involved?
Tamsin Mahalingham (26:43):
Yeah, so the project is looking at how social media affects queer people, and that's because we found that minorities are increasingly sort of looking to social media as a form of social support and community connection, but it can also really sort of expose you to sort of risk factors for mental health. A really clear example is during the [inaudible 00:27:10] site around marriage equality where there was a lot of community support and engagement, but at the same time, there was a lot of debates and quite critical sort of content going on on social media and that sort of taking that sort of stuff in is not really the best for your mental health.
(27:29):
So that's obviously a very focused example, but on a broader scale, it's sort of happening every day to an extent. And we don't really know to what extent social media for these communities is helpful or is having a negative effect or if it sort of evens out. So the research is sort of focused on testing that and really sort of figuring out the ways we're using social media and how it might be used more helpfully for these communities, rather than... or more so avoiding these sort of harmful effects. And I guess you can get involved by sending an email through or on Twitter. Social media again. Yeah.
Dr Patrick Clarke (28:14):
And we periodically advertise for participants in studies as well. So yeah, people can be on the lookout for some of that too. It's one of those fantastic examples... why did I say fantastic examples? Stark examples, perhaps, of how social media use can be both a fantastic force for some really fantastic connection between people where people, through their own peer groups, might not have been able to connect to a much larger community of individuals who they're able to relate to and feel welcomed by and validated by in some ways. But at the same time, engaging in that online environment where so much kind of nastiness can be thrown around sometimes does increase vulnerability in some ways to being exposed to some very nasty and judgmental opinions sometimes too.
Sarah Taillier (29:01):
When are you hoping to kick off that research?
Tamsin Mahalingham (29:03):
So it's ongoing now and it's probably going to be ongoing for another year or so, six months to a year. So yeah, whenever.
Sarah Taillier (29:12):
So if people are listening this podcast right now and going, "You know what? That's me. I'd love to get involved." [inaudible 00:29:17].
Tamsin Mahalingham (29:16):
Now's the time.
Sarah Taillier (29:19):
Perfect. Thank you so much, Tamsin and Patrick, for coming in today and walking us through your world and some of the connections between our mind and our screens.
Dr Patrick Clarke (29:29):
No worries. Thanks for having us.
Tamsin Mahalingham (29:30):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Sarah Taillier (29:33):
You've been listening to The Future Of, a podcast powered by Curtin University. As always, if you've enjoyed this episode, please share it and don't forget to subscribe to The Future Of on your favourite podcast app.
(29:46):
Bye for now.