What do an urban designer, an electrician and Curtin University have in common? They all want to help humanity prosper. To achieve that, sustainability is key.
What do an urban designer, an electrician and Curtin University have in common? They all want to help humanity prosper. To achieve that, sustainability is key.
In this episode, our host David is joined by Professor Josh Byrne and Saf Flatters. Josh is Dean of Sustainable Futures at Curtin (he’s also well-known as a presenter on ABC TV’s Gardening Australia), and Saf is an electrical and energy specialist and third-year Curtin data science student.
Together, they explore what a ‘sustainable future’ really means, and how a novel Curtin University subject called Sustainability Challenge is bringing together academia, industry, government and community to create real solutions to some of the most pressing environmental and social problems.
Professor Josh Byrne, Dean of Sustainable Futures, Faculty of Humanities
Professor Josh Byrne is an environmental scientist, urban design professional and Dean of Sustainable Futures at Curtin. His career bridges academia, professional practice, media and policy, with a focus on advancing urban sustainability through demonstration and collaboration. In 2025, Josh was appointed a Member of the Order of Australia (AM) for significant service to conservation, the environment and public communication.
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Saf Flatters, Bachelor of Science (Data Science) student, Faculty of Science and Engineering
Saf describes her career path as “very twisty.” With more than 15 years of experience as an electrician in the electrical and energy sectors, she’s now studying a Bachelor of Science (Data Science) at Curtin. Saf is passionate about using data to solve real-world problems, and outside her studies, she runs an electrical business, serves on industry boards and spends time bike packing through hidden corners of the world.
This podcast is brought to you by Curtin University. Curtin is a global university known for its commitment to making positive change happen through high-impact research, strong industry partnerships and practical teaching.
Email thefutureof@curtin.edu.au
Host: David Karsten
Researcher: Caitlin Crowley
Producer: Emilia Jolakoska
Curtin University acknowledges all First Nations of this place we call Australia and the First Nations peoples connected with our global campuses. We are committed to working in partnership with all Custodians and Owners to strengthen and embed First Nations’ voices and perspectives in our decision-making, now and into the future.
OKAY by 13ounce Creative Commons — Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0 Music promoted by Audio Library.
Curtin University supports academic freedom of speech. The views expressed in The Future Of podcast may not reflect those of Curtin University.
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:09:07
Sarah Taillier
This is The Future Of, where experts share their vision of the future, and how they work is helping shape it for the better.
00:00:09:09 - 00:00:42:01
David Karsten
I'm David Karsten. Every day we face increasingly complex environmental challenges. Climate change, pollution and biodiversity loss require immediate attention and action. So what does a sustainable future actually look like and how do we begin moving toward it? Well, my two guests today propose that one answer lies in embedding sustainability in education and industry to ensure environmental stewardship can happen at scale and becomes an intrinsic quality of future generations.
00:00:42:03 - 00:01:08:02
David Karsten
With me today to explore this topic is Professor Josh Byrne and Saf Flatters. Josh is an environmental scientist, urban design professional, and Dean of Sustainable Futures in the Faculty of Humanities at Curtin. If you don't already know Josh as a presenter on the ABC TV series Gardening Australia, you might know him from his books on gardening and sustainable housing, academic contributions or sustainability consultancy projects.
00:01:08:04 - 00:01:34:24
David Karsten
Saf is currently studying data science at Curtin. Following years of experience as an electrician in the electrical and energy sectors, Saf and Josh first met during Curtin’s 2025 Sustainability Challenge, an experience that further fuelled her passion for sustainable solutions. If you'd like to learn more about this topic, visit the links in the show notes. Josh, you've had a long and fascinating career in sustainability, spanning everything from academia to media.
00:01:35:01 - 00:01:40:13
David Karsten
Was there a moment when you realised that that sustainability was it for you, that was your passion?
00:01:40:15 - 00:02:11:00
Josh Byrne
Well, sustainability is a very broad field, as you can imagine, and I think that works well for me because I've, I have many interests. But look, my interest in sustainability probably was triggered by a love for the natural world, which really kicked in quite early. But by the time I was a teenager and I'd already fallen in love with gardening, and for me, gardening and growing up in suburban Perth was a connection to nature in a cultivated way.
00:02:11:02 - 00:02:34:08
Josh Byrne
But that soon developed into an interest in design. And seeing how the connection between different elements within gardening is actually a process of environmental design, which has led my passion for gardening and the work I do, since then. That was probably as an early sort of university-aged student in my early 20s. I've been studying environmental science for a few years.
00:02:34:10 - 00:03:11:14
Josh Byrne
And I really started to develop the intellectual interest in, what are the many disciplines that underpin what we call the field of sustainability, particularly urban sustainability? Drawing on urban design, drawing on hydrology, drawing on the biodiversity elements, of, of the built environment and that really then drove my research interests, particularly in water sensitive urban design, and then moving into energy efficient buildings and then starting to see towns and cities as urban ecosystems.
00:03:11:16 - 00:03:24:19
Josh Byrne
And I think it's that, it's that, ecosystem frame or model, that whether it's applied to natural systems or to built systems when done well, is really what drives my interests.
00:03:24:21 - 00:03:38:07
David Karsten
Broad is a very good way. Josh. To be a little bit more pointed now, as Dean of Sustainable Futures, can you tell us what, what a sustainable future actually means? How does that shape up? And why is that concept so important to us right now?
00:03:38:12 - 00:04:02:11
Josh Byrne
Well, for me, a sustainable future is one where humanity can prosper in a fair and just way. And that's really important. For humanity to do well, we all have to do well. Not only is that the right thing to do from an ethical perspective, but it's also just common sense. If one group of people have more than others, you're never going to have balance and symmetry.
00:04:02:11 - 00:04:26:07
Josh Byrne
So. So equity is more than just a moral imperative. It's also a practical one. But then there's the more than human. So a term that's used to capture all those other incredible parts of this planet that we share, and we need to make sure that the more than human can thrive as well. And again, that's more than just the fair and right thing to do.
00:04:26:09 - 00:04:40:16
Josh Byrne
It's also realising that as one species, we live within a very intricate web of life. And if we don't recognise that and we allow it to unravel, well, that's at our own peril.
00:04:40:18 - 00:05:03:11
David Karsten
Has sustainability and the challenges attached to it become more complex? Over time? We talk about, equity, for example. And when we see people are actually being displaced from their homes, due to the effects of climate change and the like, what what is what are the solutions and what is giving you hope for the future?
00:05:03:15 - 00:05:04:21
David Karsten
And that's to both of you.
00:05:04:23 - 00:05:36:12
Josh Byrne
Working towards a sustainable future. It's not a destination, it's a journey. And that's also how I help to reconcile the point in time where we are now. And perhaps, you know, where we might work towards recognising that we do live, in a dynamic and, and therefore changing environment. And that's always been the case. Sustainability is not about the status quo or, treading water or or keeping things sort of as is or as they were before.
00:05:36:14 - 00:06:01:23
Josh Byrne
It's about working towards that balance. So sustainability is getting more complicated, because we have population growth and therefore more competition for limited resources. And it's not to say that we necessarily have to limit population growth. We have to be much more fair with how we distribute the wealth. That really is the first thing. And that's getting harder, harder to do as the way that the global economy is running.
00:06:02:00 - 00:06:30:10
Josh Byrne
And where we have this incredible, disparity in wealth distribution. So, so that's really tricky. But also, things are moving very fast. And the way that humans are dealing with rapid increase in communications, with information overload, we now have a lot to cut through. Even though we have these amazing tools to understand information in near real time, in a way humans are being overwhelmed by this.
00:06:30:12 - 00:07:02:02
Josh Byrne
On top of that, we are seeing some major shifts in basic Earth systems that support us, namely climate, and we're entering a phase where the climate is becoming less stable for the first time since the period in which humans have been practising agriculture, the very means by which we can support our population and settlements. So, so this is new territory, very, very complicated systems are being disrupted.
00:07:02:04 - 00:07:26:16
Josh Byrne
And of course, many other things like impacts on ecosystems, the novel materials, as in new materials that don’t exist in nature being, being, being produced. And these are persistent. So persistent chemicals, persistent materials like plastics. All of this adds to the complexity, particularly when our day to day lives and the way that the economy runs largely relies on these products, these systems and these services.
00:07:26:16 - 00:07:30:24
Josh Byrne
So, yes, it's getting complicated. But we shouldn't shy away from the challenge.
00:07:30:24 - 00:08:05:06
Saf Flatters
Yeah. So I agree. Absolutely. Way more complicated than it used to be. It's always been complex or we would have had much better ways of dealing with sustainability before. I think another important point, talking about the dynamic complexity is that our solutions now can be dynamic. We can leverage, new and emerging technologies and look towards the future, because we do have the computational power to be able to build new technologies to deal with some of the big, big changes in climate and just in sustainability in general.
00:08:05:10 - 00:08:28:17
David Karsten
That's that's exactly where I wanted to wanted you to go with this and that and that question really was, with that career trajectory that you've enjoyed today, bringing in an energy specialisation into the field of what you're studying now, which is data science, can you can you tell us what you're bringing to bear in this sustainability conversation, especially in terms of the role data science has to play?
00:08:28:23 - 00:08:42:22
David Karsten
Josh sort of intimated that there's so much information and so much, I guess, stuff coming our way in terms of intel. How do you how do you use that to our advantage in finding these novel and dynamic solutions?
00:08:42:24 - 00:09:08:04
Saf Flatters
Well, the reason I was drawn to data science, as an electrician and working in industry, was that data science seems to bring structure to complexity. And that's something where I could then then shift over and have a look at some of that bigger energy issues that we have and these, these big problems that we have in the energy crisis and equitable energy.
00:09:08:06 - 00:09:30:21
Saf Flatters
And I just there's something there in data science where we can pull the pieces apart. Look at very much bigger data than what a human is capable of doing. Or even a team of humans are capable of doing and perform big statistical processes to find solutions. Isn't that so exciting? Like, that's why I'm so excited about data science.
00:09:30:21 - 00:09:56:20
Saf Flatters
And the more I'm got moving on to this degree, I'm in third year now, it just adds it is just cementing the reasons why I chose to do something like this. And, the ultimate goal is to bring it all together. Like we're this learning about statistics and computer science, on big data comes into helping people in industry or, working on helping researchers on big problems.
00:09:56:22 - 00:10:05:10
Saf Flatters
And I think that having that, vision from both sides is going to be really useful in the future.
00:10:05:12 - 00:10:11:14
David Karsten
Just to me, that that sounds like hope built on a real foundation, isn't it?
00:10:11:16 - 00:10:48:08
Josh Byrne
Hope is a really important thing to to keep hold of. There's a lot of doom and gloom out there in the world, particularly the moment there's multiple wars happening, which distracts us from, you know, even bigger issues like climate change. And, it is easy to be overwhelmed by, by these issues, but there are huge opportunities, as Saf has pointed out, for us to apply new tools, emerging innovation to tackle things in ways that we have not been able to do before.
00:10:48:10 - 00:11:13:09
Josh Byrne
And so when we're talking about this idea of sustainability and doing more than just trying to keep the status quo, we actually need to move towards applying a regenerative lens to what we do, recognising that we have depleted a number of the Earth's resources, you know, particularly biological resources, whether it be forests, or fisheries or, or soil, water.
00:11:13:11 - 00:11:40:17
Josh Byrne
But we have the knowledge, and we have the ability, if we choose to do so, to regenerate and actually have energy, positive nature, positive solutions. And, and this, this is a mindset that we do take into the sustainability challenge, as a way of trying to support students and our industry partners to be optimistic and positive about the future.
00:11:40:19 - 00:12:07:21
Josh Byrne
And when we look at this notion of sustainable futures, we have to be optimistic. Humanity has always been optimistic. It's why we're still here. It's why we do big moves like, you know, trying to send people into outer space or, trying to go to the most extreme places on the planet. There is this sense of wanting to be positive, do things, and, and that is very much at the heart for me of what we mean by sustainable futures.
00:12:08:02 - 00:12:28:24
David Karsten
Saf, you participated in the most recent sustainability challenge, with, with, with a cohort of other students here at Curtin. Can you tell us what your experience of that was for, for those of us that have not taken part ourselves, what happens on on day one? What do you see? What do you experience and what was your motivation for being part of what Josh has just introduced for us here in the chat?
00:12:29:01 - 00:12:46:11
Saf Flatters
What I went in thinking it was just another unit. And that is definitely not what I experienced. So it was over eight days and we were put into a team of other students from all around the university that I had never met before, or had even known that some of those departments existed.
00:12:46:15 - 00:12:49:24
David Karsten
Right. So it was quite interdisciplinary. Absolutely. Each of the.
00:12:49:24 - 00:13:12:10
Saf Flatters
Teams. Yes, yes. And I think that might have been the point, right? And we were given a challenge and our challenge was, to come up with a strategy to decentralise power and water at Curtin University with the idea that we need to be more climate resilient in the future. As brownouts and water shortages may become more common.
00:13:12:12 - 00:13:41:08
Saf Flatters
And, that's a huge that's a huge task to do in eight days. And this unit every day, we just had access to many, many professionals from government, from corporate, from academia, all who all, focus on their own sustainable sustainability challenges. And we got to hear about their challenges. But also they could help us, float ideas about how we're going to approach our challenge.
00:13:41:08 - 00:13:59:04
Saf Flatters
I really got to see the inside of what professionals who work in, in their own fields do when it comes to sustainability. And that was, a major, major cultural shift to what I've experienced in my very maths and statistics theory heavy unit so far.
00:13:59:07 - 00:14:11:09
David Karsten
I imagine part of that would be actually getting a firsthand view of the parameters within which they have to deal with as well, and maybe some of the, fiscal and corporate realities of, of coming up with solutions that are viable. Right?
00:14:11:13 - 00:14:35:04
Saf Flatters
Yeah, yeah, there was surprisingly, there was a lot, a lot less, “No, we can't do that”. It was more, “Let's explore that. What can we what how would you fit that in with with, the current infrastructure that Curtin has?” And so everything was came back with a really positive, okay, let's think of some crazy ideas and then let's try and make it, realistic.
00:14:35:09 - 00:14:51:12
David Karsten
If you can cast your mind back to June. Do you remember who was on your team? I'm not asking for names, but more more with regards to, the combination of disciplines that that work together to come up with, with a holistic view and holistic sort of solution to that problem that was posed to you.
00:14:51:16 - 00:15:14:23
Saf Flatters
Yeah. So on my team, we had a mechanical engineer, a mechatronics engineer who was focused on, like, space science. We had a mechanical engineer and, construction management, which I didn't even know was, available at Curtin University. And then I was the data science student, and most of them didn't know that data science degree existed.
00:15:15:00 - 00:15:25:02
Saf Flatters
And I guess I also got to kind of sneak in a little bit of my, infrastructure maintenance and, management, you know, asset management experience as well. You know.
00:15:25:02 - 00:15:38:13
David Karsten
You were the triple threat. Well done. Josh, when you when you hear Saf’s account of her experience of this year’s sustainability challenge, is is it everything you hoped it would be for for participants or more?
00:15:38:15 - 00:16:15:00
Josh Byrne
It's great validation for something that we set out to pilot, three years ago now. So we're now, at, fourth iteration of the annual Curtin Sustainability Challenge, which set out, firstly, to deliver education quite differently. That is move away from a traditional classroom or lab type environment and put students and industry, which includes government partners and groups from civil society together, to work on wicked problems.
00:16:15:02 - 00:16:35:08
Josh Byrne
And our thinking here is that the big sustainability challenges of the day, which align with big global megatrends. So countries all around the world are dealing with the same big issues, but we localise them. How do we tackle these things locally? And how do we do it in a way with different disciplines having a voice in that process?
00:16:35:10 - 00:17:08:14
Josh Byrne
Because that's how we address them. The siloed approach hasn't worked so far, so it makes sense to try something differently. What we've set out to do is also create an environment where all the participants, both students, industry partners and academics all contribute an equal voice to the process. Everyone brings their expertise, their own learned and personal experiences, and have something to contribute that's also reflective of the type of values and approach that we would like to see our graduates have at in the workplace.
00:17:08:16 - 00:17:58:17
Josh Byrne
It's also about building a range of other skills outside, just helping the students to develop expertise or an understanding of key sustainability concepts. For many, this is the first time that students may have had a chance to do that, but also to build skills in communication. Using new and emerging software, and communication tools. And these are part of a of a rounded pedagogical experience that we try and create that perhaps most importantly, we provide students with a learning environment where they can really explore ideas, have a sense of ownership of these problems, and take this optimistic, forward thinking approach, doing it in an intensive way, where the students work together over
00:17:58:17 - 00:18:26:01
Josh Byrne
that week, and it culminates in the students presenting their ideas to solving real-world industry problems is very powerful. The relationships that are formed in that intensive sprint, the rapid learning that takes place, the deep learning that happens as well. When students aren't just digesting information, they're being told, but they are actively engaged. Deeply engaged in the learning process is very, very powerful.
00:18:26:03 - 00:19:06:22
Josh Byrne
So when I hear Saf describe her experience, it's very rewarding and it makes me think that we are on the right track. But importantly, we are always reviewing and consistently looking to, to improve and to modify this process because we are at a and I think at a point in the sort of educational landscape where we do need to be testing new ideas, where we do need to be listening to what industry and wider society, are dealing with and how we can prepare our graduates for that and how they can do that as part of their learning, rather than just completing education and then getting out there and trying to help.
00:19:06:24 - 00:19:08:19
Josh Byrne
Let's combine those two.
00:19:08:19 - 00:19:23:19
David Karsten
Saf’s experience is is one level of of review, I guess, of, of the sustainability challenge. What have the industry and government partners, said in, in discussions post challenge, about the input coming from, from Curtin?
00:19:24:00 - 00:19:55:20
Josh Byrne
The way we go out and recruit our partners is we, we create an, an expression of interest, opportunity, and we go through, avenues within Curtin, such as the research partnership team and the learning partnerships team. Also, Curtin's entrepreneurial commercialisation team, who have got wonderful connections out there and to to the wider community. And we invite potentially industry partners to put forward ideas that align with the big global sustainability megatrends, which include, net zero emissions.
00:19:55:22 - 00:20:19:09
Josh Byrne
That is how do we look at mitigating climate change and improving and resilience also as part of that. Challenges aligned with a circular economy. So moving from, a linear type economy where we've got a take, make and waste type approach to one that is a lot more resource efficient, and we sort of start to design out this idea of waste.
00:20:19:11 - 00:20:48:15
Josh Byrne
And then finally, ecosystem health and wellbeing with a nature positive mindset. So these are these big themes we put out there. And we get all these wonderful responses back, from, a range of industry partners, some corporate, some government, sometimes not for profits and community groups. And we try and pick challenges that not only we think are really, really pressing but also are going to be practical and realistic for students to tackle.
00:20:48:15 - 00:21:15:04
Josh Byrne
Now then we put these student teams together, intentionally made up of students from different course backgrounds, so different disciplines, because we see that the richness that comes from that. And then the students work away on these challenges. We bring in other industry experts to provide feedback at key touch points, so they provide, almost like an additional perspective, that is different to the main industry partner who's braced them with a particular challenge.
00:21:15:06 - 00:21:37:10
Josh Byrne
We also bring in, government partners who come and advise the students about the strategy and policy context around their challenge. So they're not just working on these things in isolation. And for many students, it's the first time that they may have considered what it means to to think about positioning a problem within a certain policy jurisdiction and to understand what's happening in that space.
00:21:37:12 - 00:22:06:12
Josh Byrne
And then finally, that the students are supported by leading academic mentors, throughout the week. The students then create a solution and they pitch it, we put on an amazing showcase event where we invite the partners, and, other people from across the university, and the students are there in their teams and only have 4 or 5 students, with a showcase presentation and what they can produce in a week, using all sorts of wonderful digital tools is quite remarkable.
00:22:06:17 - 00:22:46:17
Josh Byrne
Not only in terms of how they've developed the ideas, which is supported through a studio based learning sort of pedagogy throughout the week, but also the polish on it, and how they pitch it. It's it's really quite remarkable. And so our industry partners are often blown away. And what we consistently hear is how impressed our partners are at how seriously the students have taken it, how quickly, they've learned about these, about these issues, from being briefed on it literally a week beforehand to coming up with at least part of a solution or identifying things that could be explored further, to, to deal with these big issues.
00:22:46:19 - 00:23:14:10
Josh Byrne
And we hear from our partners that they want to stay involved and stay connected. And, and for us, that's really important because I mentioned earlier about sustainability being a journey, not a destination. What we're looking to do here is also to build, relationships with our partners and to see what other opportunities are there, for Curtin, to work with them, and for for them to work with Curtin.
00:23:14:10 - 00:23:32:11
Josh Byrne
It's a two way thing, to, to provide other opportunities for collaboration and addressing this thing. So research opportunities and the like, and often it's a great way just to make that first point of contact or to consolidate new relationships, and then to look towards doing more things together.
00:23:32:17 - 00:23:51:24
David Karsten
This is a big question. And if you can offer me specifics right now, that's fine. But in the last four years of the sustainability challenge, have any of the industry partners come back to you and said, well, you know, Josh, this is this is something new that this solution that that that team has come up with is we really need to look into this further.
00:23:51:24 - 00:23:53:22
David Karsten
This is something.
00:23:53:24 - 00:24:28:01
Josh Byrne
So it's it's unrealistic to think that, a group of students, typically undergraduates, we do have some master's students participating as well, are going to solve these huge problems within a week and problem done, all things sorted. That's unrealistic. What we what we try and do. So firstly and and foremost this is about student learning experience. How do we use the challenge to to really support the students in a deep learning process.
00:24:28:03 - 00:24:57:16
Josh Byrne
Secondly, we try and identify ideas that might then be pursued at another step. And so a great example is from, one of our early challenges, some ideas, that were put forward and relationships that were cultivated between the academics involved, and the industry partner led to a partnership in a major national research project, on net-zero precincts.
00:24:57:18 - 00:25:25:20
Josh Byrne
So what started as a, as a formative relationship around the sustainability challenge in a student and sort of set of projects has now grown into a much more sophisticated and enduring relationship. And this is exactly kind of the pathway we want to set up. From the most recent challenge, there were several projects that were put forward where, industry partners have said, look, they haven't nailed it, but we're really impressed.
00:25:25:20 - 00:25:42:01
Josh Byrne
And we think there's ideas worth pursuing. And so we're in the process now of linking those students and the industry partners up, to see, if there aren't opportunities where, they might like to pursue those forward.
00:25:42:03 - 00:26:06:20
Josh Byrne
What's also really exciting is by cultivating these opportunities for for collaboration, is that students are getting exposure to industry. There's future job possibilities. Our industry partners are getting insights into the capabilities of our graduates. And of course, there are also relationships being built with our academic mentors and industry. So we try and achieve a number of things with these challenges.
00:26:06:22 - 00:26:20:21
Josh Byrne
First and foremost, it's about student experience and their learning journey. But, you know, we need to be really making the most of these, these initiatives. And so we try and have multiple outcomes coming from the projects.
00:26:20:23 - 00:26:37:20
David Karsten
And all of those, tangible outcomes. So industry and, and, and government cannot be in the business of wasting time. So if, if they, are identifying talent and great ideas through the sustainability challenge, well, that says to me that it's succeeding.
00:26:37:22 - 00:26:39:01
Josh Byrne
Absolutely.
00:26:39:03 - 00:26:54:10
David Karsten
So if your team, if you are able to keep it simple for the likes of myself, can you again just run through what the challenge was and what the solution was that you came up? Maybe it was multiple solutions. Can you give us a potted version of that?
00:26:54:12 - 00:27:26:13
Saf Flatters
Yeah. So the our our challenge that was given to our team was to work out a way to decentralise power and water at Curtin University. For the to aim for climate resilience. And our solution was where we explored multiple technologies, new technologies like, kinetic energy with old technologies like solar and water harvesting, and came up with like an off grid mode for Curtin University.
00:27:26:13 - 00:27:47:16
Saf Flatters
How can we get Curtin to switch over from grid power on grid water to be able to, you know, run more circular inside? And, in times of crisis and one, one, one part that I got to sink my teeth into was I got to explore this idea of peer to peer network, energy network trading.
00:27:47:19 - 00:27:48:16
David Karsten
Oh, wow. Okay.
00:27:48:17 - 00:28:14:19
Saf Flatters
And I know it excited excited me. The idea that somebody you can have solar in your house and you could sell your excess energy to your neighbor and your neighbor can buy energy and know it comes from renewable sources of you rather than off the grid. And the idea that then we can become more resilient, our grid lines can become more resilient because of because of that.
00:28:14:21 - 00:28:50:04
Saf Flatters
And I, I pitched it as if Curtin. Yes, we could go off grid. We could have this solar. But how about in times of crisis, the nursing home across the road, what are they going to do? Well, maybe we can share our excess energy with them and, and, you know, support our community in that way. The best part about the this unit was that as I was looking into this, I could see that we'd done trials in Western Australia, but I couldn't couldn't quite work out what what had happened since and why hadn't these trials had moved beyond that stage?
00:28:50:06 - 00:29:14:16
Saf Flatters
And speaking to Josh and then finding out that not only Josh, but many of the industry professionals that were mentoring us in the room had actually been part of these trials, had designed parts of these this, this system in Western Australia. And I kind of got the, you know, the insider goss of what were the trade offs of this particular, system and what were the benefits that they had found and where it is currently.
00:29:14:17 - 00:29:34:24
Saf Flatters
And that stuff I couldn't find on public reports. And that really drove home that those, these industry professionals that were in the room were at the forefront of looking into emerging technology for sustainable reasons, and also that they were currently shaping the future of Western Australia.
00:29:35:01 - 00:29:58:16
David Karsten
Earlier, you mentioned how, I guess, more pointed, your focus has become in the time that you've been at Curtin, as to what you're going to do with the skill set that you're gathering. With regards to the sustainability challenge, what have you got out of that and how does that relate to and contribute to your career focus for, I guess post university life.
00:29:58:18 - 00:30:33:02
Saf Flatters
So one of the the major takeaways I got from the sustainability challenge was that taking people from really diverse backgrounds, people that I don't normally, you know, hang out with or would, would, would choose to to, you know, be in the department that I would ultimately work in. Working with that we could create some really unique solutions to some really big problems and that the future is now, that that experience has already shifted even how I'm working this semester.
00:30:33:04 - 00:30:59:19
Saf Flatters
So I've chosen to do a student research project on in exploring how to, encourage, private industry to share that data so that, we can reduce waste and duplication why while fostering innovation and allowing collaborators outside of, say, businesses or even those departments to to help with their problems and ultimately, hopefully global problems.
00:30:59:21 - 00:31:07:22
David Karsten
Josh, what are your thoughts in, in, in the role of government in industry and, and our, our global future?
00:31:07:24 - 00:31:45:10
Josh Byrne
Sustainability is very much a shared problem. And the solutions will have to also be shared solutions and the benefits have to be shared. So when we look at something like the sustainability challenge, part of the, I guess the, the, the framing, of how we encourage the students to tackle their particular challenges is not just one with this lens of regeneration and optimism, evidence based optimism, very importantly, but also one of recognising that there are reasons that we've ended up where we are.
00:31:45:12 - 00:32:08:06
Josh Byrne
And very rarely is it because there's some doctor evil industry that is intentionally making all this happen or capitalising on, on, on all of the wealth that's generated. Or rarely is it, you know, a government department to blame because they're not doing their job better. And we should ask government to do more. We try and unpack that with a bit more sophistication.
00:32:08:08 - 00:32:52:04
Josh Byrne
And, you know, we're very fortunate to have, very strong governance in this country. And, and we have, you know, clarity around roles and responsibilities, in government. Yes. We would like things to happen faster, but we have a really functioning system. So one of the things we do and the purpose of bringing in government briefing partners is to try and explain to the students where their particular challenge sits within jurisdictional boundaries, what's already happening in this space with, government strategy, policies, and, what levers can be pulled to accelerate, rapid change in this space?
00:32:52:06 - 00:33:21:07
Josh Byrne
Policy work and legislation, for that matter, is slow business. And once people understand the reasons for that, they can better utilise and work within these systems. Importantly as well, it is it is fruitless trying to work on, on outcomes and results that don't reflect the reality of the day. What is happening in policy, what is happening within the economy.
00:33:21:09 - 00:33:57:01
Josh Byrne
So the more we can understand these processes, including identifying areas that can be improved, the quicker we're going to get to progressing the sustainability journey. So hopefully with that comes a little bit of pragmatism and maybe even a little bit of wisdom that's imparted amongst the group, that, try and move away from frustration, be solutions focused, work within teams, align yourself with positive changemakers that are making a difference, and contextualise your work.
00:33:57:03 - 00:34:03:18
Josh Byrne
And that's the best way to see success. So so this is the kind of, I guess that the collaborative environment we try and form, including with our partners.
00:34:03:20 - 00:34:15:04
David Karsten
Saf, what was your experience of that additional context and that, that that extra detail on that depth? Did that really arm you with, with a much better understanding of, of of how to shape a solution?
00:34:15:05 - 00:34:50:22
Saf Flatters
Yeah, absolutely. I think, without understanding the limits, we we could only go so far with our solution once, you know, kind of. And I think this comes with everything. Once you know, the barrier that you're allowed to, the confines your you can work into. Then our ideas can then become actual solutions. And that we saw that with Western with talking to Western Power and the water corporation where who you know, Mark Timson, was there and speaking about some of our solutions and, and kind of understanding.
00:34:51:03 - 00:35:04:07
Saf Flatters
Okay. But that doesn't work within the framework of, you know, state government. And this is this is how it works. And then so we knew where the barrier was. And then we can move our solution, to fit within that in that area.
00:35:04:09 - 00:35:17:06
David Karsten
I'm going to make a massive presumption and, and, and suggest that there is a 2026 sustainability challenge on the horizon. So if if someone was to come up to you and say, listen, I've been approached about this, should I participate? What would you tell them?
00:35:17:08 - 00:35:40:14
Saf Flatters
Yeah, I yeah, do it. So yeah, I, I think it's I, I think the context of what I've learned in the sustainability challenge will follow me for at least the rest of my recent career. Being able to use data science and statistics and, in, in a context that I'm actually interested in is really, really powerful.
00:35:40:14 - 00:36:04:03
Saf Flatters
I also think that learning about how to collaborate with others that aren't like yourself, has made me say that the way we're going to solve some of these biggest, our biggest issues is breaking down these silos and reaching out towards, industries that might that, that, that may be able to help. And that's something that I want to be part of.
00:36:04:04 - 00:36:10:00
Saf Flatters
And so I absolutely do the sustainability challenge because it will open your mind.
00:36:10:02 - 00:36:23:15
David Karsten
Well, if that's not proof of concept, I don't know what it is, but that that being said, your work continues. Is there anything, on the horizon that's specific to next year's challenge that you talk about the event evolving or is it early days yet?
00:36:23:17 - 00:36:59:22
Josh Byrne
We've been very fortunate to have an opportunity to deliver the sustainability challenge as a model, globally now. So we piloted the first global sustainability challenge for Curtin, on a Singapore campus, last year, in November. And we're now in preparation for the Global Sustainability Challenge in Dubai, which is happening this coming November. And through this way, provide an opportunity from students from all of the global campuses to come together and participate in a sustainability challenge.
00:36:59:22 - 00:37:20:11
Josh Byrne
We work with the local, global campus to identify industry partners in a similar way that we have explained. That happens here at Bentley, and we identify challenges, and then we put the program together. We deliver it in a very similar way. It's an intensive we have a combination of briefings from partners. We have site visits, we have masterclasses.
00:37:20:13 - 00:37:43:01
Josh Byrne
We do the same studio based learning, type environment, where students are working in teams not only from different course backgrounds, but from different countries as well. The Singapore one was incredible. I'm so excited about Dubai, and I have a dream that, over the coming years, we'll get to deliver one of these on each of our global campuses.
00:37:43:01 - 00:37:46:21
Josh Byrne
As part of Curtin's Global Scholar program.
00:37:46:23 - 00:37:57:04
David Karsten
Well the scale of it certainly is becoming eye watering. You should think of rebranding it Sustainability Juggernaut. Josh, Saf, thank you so much for coming in today. And if you're a student or industry member who would like to get involved in the sustainability challenge, visit the links in the shownotes.
00:37:57:06 - 00:38:10:15
Sarah Taillier
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